Monday, June 29, 2015

Marion County Libertarian Party Won't Support Religious Liberty for People of Faith, But Will Support it for Fake, Pot Smoking Church

I hate to write two straight articles on the same subject, but someone directed my attention to a ridiculous press release issued today by the Marion County (Indianapolis) Libertarian Party in which it professes to now support religious freedom after opposing it earlier this year:
Indianapolis , IN – In an apparent effort to intimidate and coerce the free expression of religion, Marion County Prosecutor Terry Curry, along with IMPD Chief Rick Hite and other city officials held a press conference on Friday June 26th. During the course of that press conference, Curry and Hite made it clear that those attending the inaugural service at the First Church of Cannabis, scheduled on July 1st, would face criminal charges and possible arrest. Chief Hite went so far as to compare the first Church of Cannabis and their leader, Bill Levin to mass murder Jim Jones and the People’s Temple. 
The Libertarian Party of Marion County sees this as a direct attack on the inalienable rights numerated in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. An individual’s belief or disbelief in Deity is no business of the State of Indiana or the City of Indianapolis. The consumption of cannabis as a religious sacrament poses no threat to public safety and therefore, the state has no compelling reason to interfere with this, or any peaceful assembly of worshippers. Arrest, citation, harassment or intimidation of any persons peaceably assembled at the First Church of Cannabis will be regarded as an attack on the individual liberties guaranteed by the U. S. Constitution. 
The Libertarian Party of Marion County encourages Chief Hite to apologize for his outlandish and insensitive comparison of the first Church of Cannabis to the dark tragedy of the People’s Temple. We call on the law enforcement community throughout Indiana to abide by the Constitution which they have taken an oath to uphold. Most importantly, we call on the good people of Indiana to assemble in the spirit of Liberty to protect the rights of the First Church of Cannabis and any other religious body facing persecution from the overreach of the state.
Let's be clear about this.  Earlier this year the Libertarian Party had a chance to take a stand for the First Amendment Free Exercise Clause.  Contrary to the claim that Libertarian Party supports all constitutional rights, the party took a pass.  It became crystal clear during the RFRA debate that when the Libertarian Party says it is for "liberty" that liberty most certainly does not include religious freedom.

Today though the Marion County Libertarian Party suddenly reversed directions issuing a press release claiming the party has done a 180 and now supports religious freedom.  Why the sudden change?  Is it because the party leaders now realize that there are well-meaning people across the state who have deeply held religious beliefs and want to see their right to practice their faith protected from undue government interference?  Absolutely not.  It is because the Marion County Libertarian Party wants to lend support to a well-known religious bigot who immediately post-RFRA (a law he strongly opposed) set up a fake church so he could continue his two favorite pastimes mocking religion and smoking pot while enjoying his fleeting 15 minutes of fame.  

Is there any reason for people of faith to vote for the Libertarian Party after that insulting press release?

38 comments:

Pete Boggs said...

Unfortunately, like the D's & R's; L's are SOS responsive, Shiny Object Syndrome. Excision of principle sounds the starter's pistol; a rash dash for flash 'n cash, the disfigurement of liberty a cultural gash; they're loathe to acknowledge from teeth they gnash.

Anonymous said...

A "fake" church with potheads is better than a "real" church of child molesters isn't it?

Paul K. Ogden said...

Where is this "real" church filled with "child molesters," Anon 3:42?

Anonymous said...

The Catholic Church, moron. Ever watch the news?

Paul K. Ogden said...
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Paul K. Ogden said...
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Paul K. Ogden said...

So Catholic churches are filled with "child molesters?" You should be happy to know that your hatred of Catholics lives up to the proud tradition of the Ku Klux Klan. Do you burn crosses on the lawns of Catholic churches too?

Anonymous said...

The Indiana Libertarian Party have been taken over by people who are not only not true libertarians. The new crew at the Indiana LP are also traitors to the cause of limited government! Right on Mr. Ogden for exposing these frauds and flim flam artists!

Anonymous said...

$2.4 Billion and counting have the Catholics in America shelled out for their homosexual priests...

Paul K. Ogden said...

Anon 2:28, I thought we clarified that you said the Catholic Church was filled with child molesters. You did not confine your comments to priests, but included all Catholics in that depiction. So now you're backing away that, you're willing to admit we're only talking about a small minority of priests? If not, why not just admit you have a Klan-like hatred of Catholics?

Anonymous said...

You won't post my comments then comment on them. You're a coward and a fucking pussy. I think you might be a child molester, Paul. Is that why you defend them so hard? You like diddling little kids, Paul?

Anonymous said...

Show me where I said "filled." Show me, bitch. You little pussy liar.

Paul K. Ogden said...
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Paul K. Ogden said...

Anon, I've never posted a comment to something you said without posting what you said. You referred to a "church of child molesters" and I tried to clarify what you were saying. You said you were talking about Catholics, and weren't just limiting yourself to priests. If you have now changed your mind and now are indicating you were just referring to a small minority of priests who were engaging in child molesting and not the Catholic laity, that's fine. As a Catholic, I accept your apology on behalf of all Catholics.

Oh, and I'm not suspended. Thanks for playing though.

Anonymous said...

Fuck you and your child molesting cult. For the record I think all religion is stupid and fictional. I do and will always hate child molesters and anyone that hides them, covers up for them, or supports them. Deal with it, you child molesting sympathizer. Shame. So you admit I never said "filled." What a sorry ass apology. Zero respect for you. ZERO. You're not a man, you're a fucking pussy.

Anonymous said...

I thought you said you weren't going to pay the fine out of principle? Do you ever tell the truth? Do you any integrity? Were you diddled as a kid at church and liked it, so you don't think it's a big deal?

Paul K. Ogden said...

Sorry, Anon 5:05, but I don't have the time to educate you on the rules that apply to attorneys or my particular situation. I do appreciate your concern though.

You do realize that even though you post Anonymously your IP address on these comments can be tracked? Personally I'm not worried about physical threats. Law enforcement officials though might take a different attitude. Just keep making the though. I'm almost finished figuring out which one you are and the continued comments really help.

Anonymous said...

Threats? What threats. I used the fine line like you did accusing me as being a Klansman. I'm not afraid of you. You're meaningless. Looks like I was correct though, you're a COWARD and a PUSSY and PATHETIC. You can dish it out, but can't take it? I'm laughing at you, pussy boy.

Paul K. Ogden said...

I just made an obvious historical comparison between your views about Catholics and those of the 1920s Indiana Klan. You make physical threats over the internet refusing to use your real name and I lack courage? Okay.

Anonymous said...

I'm still waiting for you to post my "threats." I'm not like you, Paul. I'm not a pussy bitch. I'm not scared. You are a liar, a child molesting sympathizer, and a human shit stain. Fuck you mother fucker, you crying little bitch. You call me a klansman and get your panties in a knot when I come back at you. Pathetic, little coward. You start a fight, then want mommy to come stop it. PATHETIC. I'll meet you in person any time, anywhere. Let's meet at a gym that has boxing ring. No mommies, no cops (I'm still laughing at your threat, pussy boy.), no weapons. just two men settling their differences in the ring. Let me know if you have the balls. I'm not holding my breath, fucking little coward.

Melyssa Hubbard said...

From the highest ranks, the Catholic Church covered up the molestations of children. Yet, they get a pass as a 'real' religion. From the beginning when church elders found out their children were being horribly abused, why didn't they push to arrest and try the priests? Why did they try and cover it up instead? That's a 'real' church?

I was at the First Church of Cannabis. There's nothing fake about it. I'm also a Christian. If anyone wants to talk with me about the church and the spiritual experience that was shared by everyone in attendance, feel free to message me.

It was real. It was palatable. And God was in that church!

Paul K. Ogden said...

Melyssa,

This is the old "smear by association" tactic. Because there are some bad priests who did horrible things and some in the hierarchy covered it up, a whole religion should be condemned?

As far as the "First Church of Cannabis" do you really believe, Bill Levin, who has a history up until the day RFRA passed of mocking religion and people of faith, somehow suddenly transitioned into a man of faith? Seriously? The man is a huckster who found a way to make a buck while continuing to mock religion and smoke pot. I have no problem supporting a new religion. That doesn't mean I have to close my eyes to the circumstances behind the establishment of a fake church by a person who has a long history of being an intolerant religious bigot.

While you claim a religious awakening, Melyssa, the fact is you aren't tolerant of those who find their religion elsewhere, Melyssa. You weren't supportive of religious freedom when RFRA was going through and just a day or so ago you were making derogatory comments about religion saying it is all about controlling people. Melyssa, instead of simply saying you believe in tolerance, why don't you try practicing tolerance?

Anonymous said...

The Indiana Libertarian Party is no long home to true Libertarians. Real Libertarians in this state must completely reject the party. And go about the tasks of of presenting real Libertarianism by refusing to associate with a party that is willing to sell it's soul just for attention. Every Libertarian is a leader not a silly attention seeker as many who claim to speak for the LP are.

Anonymous said...

I have to question the judgment of a person that has more tolerance for child molesters than they do pot smokers. That really makes no sense.

Paul K. Ogden said...

Anon 3:17, so we're back to saying Catholics are child molesters? That Indiana Klan mentality never goes away. Sad.

Melyssa Hubbard said...

I've known Bill many years. There's nothing insincere about his motives and the church is consistent with what he's spoken to me about via countless conversations over the years.

I was there. You weren't.

I'm qualified to speak to my spirituality and beliefs. You aren't.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the Klan was anti-Catholic because they knew they were fucking kids. Their indoctrination program must really work. What would it take for you to wise up and leave? Wasn't Hitler Catholic too??

Anonymous said...

Why the Indiana Libertarian Party associates with Abdul is beyond belief! Any person who kisses Greg Ballards butt that much is no Libertarian! All Hoosiers reject Bill Levin and Abdul Hakim-Shabazz! Stop the nonsense which is the Libertarian Party! Demand that LP members explain why the consider Levin & Abdul allies!

Paul K. Ogden said...

Melyssa, I think Bill is sincere - sincere about wanting to smoke pot and make fun of religion which is exactly what his Church is all about. You want me to simply ignore his history of bigotry toward religion and people of faith he has expressed over the years and pretend he has had a spiritual awakening which just happened to coincide with RFRA. I WON"T DO IT>

I have no doubt you are "spiritual." I also have no doubt you are very intolerant person when it comes to religion and people who believe differently than you when it comes to matters of faith. While you preach intolerance, when it comes to religion, you don't practice intolerance.

Melyssa Hubbard said...

Thank God I have RFRA to protect me from Paul Ogden.

I have endless tolerance of the faith of others. I've tolerated your harassment of me for two weeks on social media. However, I am intolerant of those who would use their faith to limit the freedom of other people.

Should you continue to stalk me on this subject on my Facebook with your derogatory posts, I will remove you . . . and then I'll tell everyone I did and why.

Paul K. Ogden said...

Melyssa, don't flatter yourself. I don't spend a lot of time on Facebook and was off it until late yesterday evening Every time I write one FB post, you write 10 in response. You follow me around to other threads and make incendiary comments. You come to my blogs and make incendiary comments. I grew sick of your ridiculous accusations and threats and have already defriended you on Facebook.

This all started because I pointed out that while you preach tolerance, you don't practice it when it comes to people who want to exercise religious beliefs you don't share. It turns out you are also intolerant when it comes to views you don't agree with. Instead of welcoming diversity of thought, you start attacking people personally if they don't share your views. It's unfortunate that someone who preaches tolerance and diversity could be so opposed to those concepts in practice.

Anonymous said...

Oh! Look at who just got owned by Paul Ogden! Go Paul!

Melyssa Hubbard said...

Oh, I'm not owned. I'm guilty of tolerance and that's about it.

I welcome diversity of thought, but not when it is stated over and over and over and becomes harassment on my thread . . . that my family reads and accesses.

I have no tolerance for trolling on my feed. Friendly criticism is fine. Saying it once is enough.

Over and over again? That's what trolls do.

Like I've said . . . if it happens again, I'll pull the plug.

Paul K. Ogden said...
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Paul K. Ogden said...

Melissa, I already pulled the plug on you on Facebook and I'm pulling it now on these comment threads. You're the one who is trolling on Facebook and on my blog. You probably posted 10 posts for every comment I made on Facebook and followed me around on other threads. And even after I defriend you on Facebook you come on here to post. I pointed out very politely that you preach tolerance, but you're not tolerant when it comes to accepting other people's religious beliefs and their right to practice those beliefs. All I was expecting for was for you to maybe engage in some introspection, to consider that you need to be more open and accepting of people who are of faith and do participate in organized religion. Instead of doing that, you went ballistic, lodging silly accusations and making petty threats. As a Christian though I do believe we're all made in God's image and thus I am hopeful that, down the road, you will grow to be every bit as tolerant and accepting of others in practice as you claim to be currently...but clearly are not. That won't be a transformation that I will see though as I'm checking out. Adios.

Nicolas Martin said...

I've had two online encounters with Melyssa Hubbard, both resulting in comically nasty attacks by her. When she is challenged about politics, she quickly shifts to a frantic-hostile-accusatory tone.

I found myself in a second FB discussion with her several days ago that I didn't realize led to her FB page. It wasn't particularly vitriolic at first, but when I disagreed with her she responded in character in a public post, saying, "You are nothing now. One more remark from you and you are reported to the FBI for harassment. I don't tolerate bullies [i.e., disagreement] on my thread...You are like a malignancy that needs [to be] abolished." These are not the sentiments one would expect from a self-professed Tea Party founder and Libertarian Party supporter, though a National Socialist would have appreciated the "malignancy" part. Not satisfied, Hubbard further burnished her tolerance credentials by posting, "By the way he [me] does have a tiny penis. That's his problem," and then to an apparent Libertarian Party supporter named Joe Bryant who had posted that I have a "limp dick," Hubbard said, "I have a lot of experience in that area. My guess is that you are right, Joe Bryant. It's like a pencil."

In a few short sentences Hubbard, a public figure, shows that she is remarkably thin-skinned, and willing to descend to the crudest sort of vitriol. She is outside the boundaries of civil society.

I haven't read her book, but my understanding is that her former (?) profession, dominatrix, consisted of her degrading men, and it seems she chose the right career path.

If Hubbard's Linkedin page is accurate, she now works for Angie's List. That alone should cast suspicion on her commitment to any sort of principled associated with libertarianism. I'm not sure what the Tea Party stands for, if anything.

I posted a screen shot of Hubbard's and Bryant's comments to the FB page of Rex Bell, the Wayne County LP honcho who presents himself as a corn-pone moralist, but he has not seen fit to comment on the post, which surprises me not at all. The LP is a festering sore on the posterior of libertarianism.

Pete Boggs said...

What are those feigning to be rubbed RF-RAW doing about REAL threats to sovereignty?

What are they doing about this (?): http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Jul-07/305563-posters-threatening-gays-with-death-appear-in-turkish-capital.ashx

Nicolas Martin said...

I've had two online encounters with Melyssa Hubbard, both resulting in comically nasty attacks by her. When she is challenged about politics, she quickly shifts to a frantic-hostile-accusatory tone.

I found myself in a second FB discussion with her several days ago that I didn't realize led to her FB page. It wasn't particularly vitriolic at first, but when I disagreed with her she responded in character in a public post, saying, "You are nothing now. One more remark from you and you are reported to the FBI for harassment. I don't tolerate bullies [i.e., disagreement] on my thread...You are like a malignancy that needs [to be] abolished." These are not the sentiments one would expect from a self-professed Tea Party founder and Libertarian Party supporter, though a National Socialist would have appreciated the "malignancy" part. Not satisfied, Hubbard further burnished her tolerance credentials by posting, "By the way he [me] does have a tiny penis. That's his problem," and then to an apparent Libertarian Party supporter named Joe Bryant who had posted that I have a "limp dick," Hubbard said, "I have a lot of experience in that area. My guess is that you are right, Joe Bryant. It's like a pencil."

In a few short sentences Hubbard, a public figure, shows that she is remarkably thin-skinned, and willing to descend to the crudest sort of vitriol. She is outside the boundaries of civil society.

I haven't read her book, but my understanding is that her former (?) profession, dominatrix, consisted of her degrading men, and it seems she chose the right career path.

If Hubbard's Linkedin page is accurate, she now works for Angie's List. That alone should cast suspicion on her commitment to any sort of principled associated with libertarianism. I'm not sure what the Tea Party stands for, if anything.

I posted a screen shot of Hubbard's and Bryant's comments to the FB page of Rex Bell, the Wayne County LP honcho who presents himself as a corn-pone moralist, but he has not seen fit to comment on the post, which surprises me not at all. The LP is a festering sore on the posterior of libertarianism.