Wednesday, April 3, 2013

Central Indiana Regional Transportation Authority Van Sports Ohio License Plates

An alert reader of this blog was at a Columbus, Indiana parking garage this morning when he spotted a CIRTA ride-sharing van sporting Ohio plates.





This is how CIRTA describes its mission:
The Central Indiana Regional Transportation Authority (CIRTA) is working to improve existing commuter options and better connect Indianapolis with the rest of Central Indiana, specifically Marion, Hamilton, Hancock, Shelby, Johnson, Morgan, Hendricks, Boone, Delaware and Madison counties.
CIRTA's website includes several strong pleas for mass transit including the very expensive light rail.
 
This is how Commuter Connect (the ride sharing group) describes itself on its website:
Commuter Connect, a FREE service that can help you save money
Commuter Connect (formerly Central Indiana Commuter Services or CICS) offers alternative transportation solutions to area employers and commuters in Boone, Hamilton, Hancock, Hendricks, Johnson, Madison, Marion, Morgan and Shelby counties, such as: carpooling, vanpooling, riding transit, biking and walking.
Our mission is to reduce air pollution and traffic congestion. We provide a valuable benefit to the community by promoting greater mobility, and reducing pollution and congestion in Central Indiana. We promote a cleaner environment and better quality of life.
We are a service that helps employees find affordable and convenient transportation to work.
As these are at the very least quasi-government, if not government, entities I'm not going to bother blurring the license plate.

Of course, since Bartholomew County (Columbus) is not on the list of counties served by CIRTA or Commuter Connect, there is the additional question of what the van is doing there.

25 comments:

Indy Rob said...

so what is the deal with the stickers on Ohio plates? The van has a sticker on the left corner with a '13' and a sticker on the right corner with '12-13' on it. The plate on Ms. Smith's car only has a sticker on the right hand corner '07-13'. Which is required? Is her winter car even properly registered in Ohio?

Rob K said...

I like how it appears to be taking up more than one parking space too.

Michael said...

Obsessed much?

It's not CIRTA's van. The posted photos clearly show this van is provided by the private firm vRide.

I have no idea how they manage their fleet but the nearest city where they seem to have a major consumer presence is Columbus.

http://www.vride.com/find-rides

CircleCityScribe said...

That van advocates a Central Indiana mass transit system and has a City of Indianapolis Centrex phone number on it. Thus, one may logically deduct that its primarily driven/used in Indiana.

Indiana law requires it to be registered in Indiana.

Paul K. Ogden said...

Michael. Actually it's pretty clearly a van being used by CIRTA and the ride sharing people here in Indiana. You wouldn't deny that would you? It has a 317 area phone number on it!

If they are in possession of the vehicle in this state and using it here, they have to register and license it here. CircleCityScribe is right. Indiana law requires that it be registered in Indiana.

Michael said...
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Michael said...

I have yet to see you cite any authority on these legal claims you're making. It'd be nice to see one.

Paul K. Ogden said...

Well, Michael, you could try the BMV website for starters. We also have an Indiana Code on line. Not sure why you think I should do research for you. You've after all have offered no proof for your position, that if there is an out-of-state owner of a vehicle and the vehicle is possessed and used in Indiana, it can somehow be licensed in the state where the owner lives instead of Indiana.

But let's say you were somehow right and it was legal. Do you actually think it's a good idea for a van with bold lettering referring to the Central Indiana Regional Transportation Authority and advertising ride sharing in Central Indiana using a 317 (Indianapolis) area code number and listing websites referring to central Indiana to have Ohio plates? How brain dead do the people of CIRTA have to be to not realize this is a bad idea?



Michael said...
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Michael said...
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Michael said...

I'm not a lawyer, but the Indiana Code that I've read is pretty clear that vehicles OWNED by Indiana RESIDENTS must be registered. It's also pretty clear to me that Indiana NON-RESIDENTS don't have to register their vehicles for use in Indiana, as long as they're registered where those non-residents have their residence.

IC 9-18-2-2
Registration; nonresidents
Sec. 2. (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a nonresident who owns a vehicle required to be registered under this article may:
(1) operate; or
(2) permit the operation of;
the vehicle in Indiana without registering the vehicle or paying any fees if the vehicle is properly registered in the jurisdiction in which the nonresident is a resident.
(b) An exemption granted to nonresident owners under this section applies only to the extent that Indiana residents are granted exemptions in the jurisdiction that is the residence of the nonresident.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.6.


Commercial vehicles, on the other hand, have a completely separate set of rules at the state and federal level, especially when they're used interstate. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure those interstate vehicles don't have to get a set of license plates for every state they go.

And finally, commercial vehicles put advertising for companies on the side of those vehicles all the time, with no bearing on who owns the vehicles. Ever seen a semi trailer?

Oh, and it seems only fair that if you're gonna go around and start publicly accusing people of breaking the law, you ought to at least know what law it is that they're breaking. You are a lawyer, after all.

Michael said...

I missed one of your questions. Yes, I think it'd be great if CIRTA used a local vanpool vendor. Maybe there weren't any. It looks like they have arrangements with both vRide and Enterprise:

http://www.cirta.us/commuterconnect/vanpool/

I'm pretty sure Enterprise has an interstate fleet, too, so I wouldn't be surprised to see out-of-state plates on their vehicles that CIRTA provides to vanpool members. I know I've had out of state plates on private vehicles I've rented from them in Indiana in the past. Anyway, I'd be surprised if either company isn't paying their legally-required Indiana state taxes to operate vehicles in intrastate and interstate use. Do you have some evidence they aren't?

Matt said...

I may be wrong but I thought 327 prefixes were for Marion County Government Offices.

Cato said...

Wow, this Michael guy sure does say some bizarre stuff.

CIRTA's dead wrong. They got caught. Case closed.

We now can't believe anything the public transit advocates say, so their positions should be ignored.

End of story.

Michael said...

Yeah. How dare I bring actual facts into this fabricated "issue"?

1. The vehicle isn't owned or operated by CIRTA or Commuter Connect, who only sponsor the vanpool program and help private individuals find a vanpool.
2. The vehicle is owned and operated by a private out-of-state company and has a license plate in a state where that company does business.
3. The laws don't seem to suggest that it's necessary for this out of state company to get an Indiana license plate as long as proper taxes are paid.
4. The van is used by a vanpool from commuters in Johnson County, which is in the CIRTA/Commuter Connect service area.

None of these facts took more than 5 minutes to find. If anyone has facts or laws to back up their allegations of fraud or whatever it is that these folks have supposedly done wrong, that'd be awesome.

... crickets ...

Yeah, didn't think so. Paul's become quite the peddler of factless rumor, gossip, and religion lately. Must be trying to give Abdul a run for the money.

Pete Boggs said...

So... is Michael suggesting the quickest way 'round Indy is through Ohio?

CircleCityScribe said...

....ahhhh, (cough), Michael.

Indiana law is CLEAR!

...you even admitted it: 9-18-2-2(b) An exemption granted to nonresident owners under this section applies only to the extent that Indiana residents are granted exemptions in the jurisdiction that is the residence of the nonresident.

That van advocates a Central Indiana mass transit system and has a City of Indianapolis Centrex phone number on it. Thus, one may logically deduct that its primarily driven/used in Indiana.

Indiana law requires it to be registered in Indiana.

"IC 9-18-2-45
Improperly registered vehicles; misdemeanor
Sec. 45. A person who knowingly or intentionally owns a motor vehicle that is registered outside Indiana but that is required to be registered in Indiana commits a
Class B misdemeanor.


Michael said...

IC 9-18-2-2 applies to non-resident individuals, like the Ohio resident that owns the car Erika Smith was driving.

Try again, but this time for commercial vehicles, not individually-owned ones.

Still waiting to see any citation whatsoever that indicates such a commercial fleet vehicle, owned by a private out-of-state company, must have Indiana license plates. Anything at all ....

Indy Rob said...

All sorts of interlocking non-profits playing hide the salaries. If I understand it right, the city is using about a million dollars in grants to run a website to recruit riders for van pools of which there is a small number of commuters (somewhere around 200 or so passengers) carpooling/vanpooling for daily 50 mile commutes. vride appears to be a private firm providing vans for long term leases but they have status as being the only vendor working with cirta; cirta uses government grant money to recruit customers for vride who then contract to lease vans for a daily commute.

Vride may be a private company, but it is government grant money that is recruiting their customers. I also wonder how much money they are putting up for those vans or if that is subsidized as well.

Michael said...

I'm not defending CIRTA or their budget as I don't know anything about that. But there's no need to wonder what's going on with this program -- all of these questions are already answered on their web site.

If you had read http://www.cirta.us/commuterconnect/vanpool/ you would know that vRide is not the only vendor; Enterprise is too. The costs are paid/split by the people using the vans. You'd also know that the Commuter Connect pays around $100 per van per month to contribute for fuel costs, and pays for occasional emergency taxi service for vanpool members.

You'd also have known that they organize several other services other than the vans.

This isn't rocket science, people. I know Paul just switched to Bing, the "Christian search engine", but I'd like to think even Bing could point you to this information within 30 seconds if anyone bothered to look. Instead, this blog's turned into a haven for baseless crime accusations.

Pete Boggs said...

"Crime" might be the undisclosed or improperly disclosed operation & use of public funds for the expansion of unchartered or pretense of government "authority."

Fair questions have been raised here & more linger. Why is that van plated out of state? What's it doing in a Columbus garage? How many people is it transporting in purported service to the people? What are its efficiencies per mile, hour, compared with their promoted bicycle campaign, etc.?

Will CIRTA join the Circle Carousel Group (CCG), promoting their plan to provide painted horse travel around the circle?

Michael said...
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Michael said...

All of these "questions" are clearly answered on the web site.

Once again ... since none of you seem to be able to read for yourself ....

The van is owned and operated by vRide, who have major operations in Ohio. According to the web site, "One new vanpool meets at the Sam’s Club in Greenwood, where the 15 participants board the van and travel to Columbus, where they work for Cummins." Those 15 people pay for the van themselves, save a $100 monthly fuel stipend from CIRTA, who also helped organize the group.

I don't know what that model of van's fuel efficiency is, but it's highly unlikely and impractical for 15 people to bike from Greenwood to Columbus and back every day for work.

Pete Boggs said...

Michael- Why would we bother to read a website promoting expansion of taxes or subsidy (mo-G), when we can rely on you to subsidize us with its "content?"

Any plan which expands rather than cuts taxes, is completely irresponsible & poorly conceived. Furthermore, fraudulent creation of a "disabled class," who are otherwise "vital" but somehow can't manage their own travel or commute- it's an insult to logic.



RhondaLeeBaby69 said...

Wow, this Cato guy sure does say some bizarre stuff.

Cato's dead wrong. He got caught. Case closed.

We now can't believe anything the conservative posters say, so their positions should be ignored.

End of story.